Comments on: Alice by Tom Oreb http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/ The official blog of the new Chronicle book CARTOON MODERN: STYLE AND DESIGN IN FIFTIES ANIMATION. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:46:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Ward http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-427 Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:24:04 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-427 There is this preconcieved notion that flat=retro, therefore anyone can do it. Not at all. I'm glad you've brought up this subject, Amid, because there is a misconception about "flat" design -- there is SO much more to it than what people think. When I started to work on my "flat" style back about 6 or 7 years ago, it opened up a whole new world for me. I basically had to "unlearn" everything I knew about art and drawing and it forced me to look at things with new eyes. The breaking down of lines and shapes to create a false dimension is mindboggling if you think of it -- to make it look deliberate, not to mention GOOD, is quite an undertaking. There is no easy way around it and the artists who do it right have an uncanny sense of design and draftmanship. Oreb was such a draftsman. He understood the shape and form and volume of each and every character he was working on. There are no "short-cuts" in his work -- every line has a rhyme and reason to it. Great couple of posts, Amid! Keep it up. There is this preconcieved notion that flat=retro, therefore anyone can do it. Not at all. I’m glad you’ve brought up this subject, Amid, because there is a misconception about “flat” design — there is SO much more to it than what people think. When I started to work on my “flat” style back about 6 or 7 years ago, it opened up a whole new world for me. I basically had to “unlearn” everything I knew about art and drawing and it forced me to look at things with new eyes. The breaking down of lines and shapes to create a false dimension is mindboggling if you think of it — to make it look deliberate, not to mention GOOD, is quite an undertaking. There is no easy way around it and the artists who do it right have an uncanny sense of design and draftmanship. Oreb was such a draftsman. He understood the shape and form and volume of each and every character he was working on. There are no “short-cuts” in his work — every line has a rhyme and reason to it.

Great couple of posts, Amid! Keep it up.

]]> by: j http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-426 Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:37:06 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-426 I think the thing that really separates Tom Oreb is that he's really a superb draughtsman with an amazing graphic sense. His work always knocks me over,particularly the Sleeping Beauty stuff, for how solid and just plain well drawn it is. Great post Amid. Can't wait to get my hands on that book of yours. J I think the thing that really separates Tom Oreb is that he’s really a superb draughtsman with an amazing graphic sense. His work always knocks me over,particularly the Sleeping Beauty stuff, for how solid and just plain well drawn it is.
Great post Amid. Can’t wait to get my hands on that book of yours.
J

]]> by: Thorsten Hasenkamm http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-425 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:11:48 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-425 I'm SO looking forward to your book, Amid! Thanks for posting! I’m SO looking forward to your book, Amid! Thanks for posting!

]]> by: Jenny http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-424 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:32:18 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-424 Amid, about the talent at Disney's then--my god, how true that is--and don't forget Claude Smith and of course Partch(as if you would)--both those names came up during my "Fred" talks with Kimball and O'Brien as guys who worked with Ward around 1940--oh yeah, and Hank Ketcham, too. Whew. Unbelievable. Speaking of the lack of discussion of "flatness"--will you be able to tackle that in your book? If not--a future "Blast" article from you, perhaps? Amid, about the talent at Disney’s then–my god, how true that is–and don’t forget Claude Smith and of course Partch(as if you would)–both those names came up during my “Fred” talks with Kimball and O’Brien as guys who worked with Ward around 1940–oh yeah, and Hank Ketcham, too. Whew. Unbelievable.
Speaking of the lack of discussion of “flatness”–will you be able to tackle that in your book? If not–a future “Blast” article from you, perhaps?

]]> by: tom terrifc http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-423 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:42:37 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-423 Hey amid, What happened to my copy of Animation Blast!! When will they finally ship :) Hey amid, What happened to my copy of Animation
Blast!! When will they finally ship :)

]]> by: Amid http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-422 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:38:44 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-422 Thanks for the story Jenny. It's funny to think of how much talent was at Disney at that time. Imagine, Moore, Oreb, Kimball, Walt Kelly and Dave Swift all in one unit. Pre-strike Disney was, in my opinion, the single greatest convergence of artists who ever worked in animation. Shame it had to be broken up. Also, thanks for the comments everybody. It's interesting, this whole flat drawing complaint is not exactly new. John Hubley would complain in the 1940s about how Gene Deitch would flatten out all of his film's background layouts and turn them into decorative patterns. It's too bad there's not more discussion on these aspects of designs. We certainly could use more thoughtful analysis of what makes good design, which of course is largely rooted in what makes good drawing in general. Thanks for the story Jenny. It’s funny to think of how much talent was at Disney at that time. Imagine, Moore, Oreb, Kimball, Walt Kelly and Dave Swift all in one unit. Pre-strike Disney was, in my opinion, the single greatest convergence of artists who ever worked in animation. Shame it had to be broken up.

Also, thanks for the comments everybody. It’s interesting, this whole flat drawing complaint is not exactly new. John Hubley would complain in the 1940s about how Gene Deitch would flatten out all of his film’s background layouts and turn them into decorative patterns. It’s too bad there’s not more discussion on these aspects of designs. We certainly could use more thoughtful analysis of what makes good design, which of course is largely rooted in what makes good drawing in general.

]]> by: Jenny http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-421 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:22:49 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-421 Jeeezzz, that's beautiful. I love Tom Oreb. Allow me to digress for your(hopefully)amusement: I was following up on an interview with Ward Kimball--about Fred Moore, naturally--and he was saying that one of the assistants intheir room was someone who sounded like "Tom Moore". "M-O-O-R-E?" I asked. NO! NO! OREB! ORRREB!!" Poor Ward got increasingly bugged at my denseness. He should have spelled it for me off the top. I'd never heard of the guy(this was '81), and besides--what a name! "Oreb"?! Anyway, well worth knowing. ; ) And yes, you're right about the misunderstanding of "flat", alright. Jeeezzz, that’s beautiful. I love Tom Oreb.
Allow me to digress for your(hopefully)amusement: I was following up on an interview with Ward Kimball–about Fred Moore, naturally–and he was saying that one of the assistants intheir room was someone who sounded like “Tom Moore”. “M-O-O-R-E?” I asked. NO! NO! OREB! ORRREB!!” Poor Ward got increasingly bugged at my denseness. He should have spelled it for me off the top. I’d never heard of the guy(this was ‘81), and besides–what a name! “Oreb”?! Anyway, well worth knowing. ; )

And yes, you’re right about the misunderstanding of “flat”, alright.

]]> by: Gerard de Souza http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-420 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:06:16 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-420 I like your comment about present "flat" cartoon styles, misinterpreting the "cartoon modern" style. They're flat because there is no design theory vocabulary to draw upon. It is the misbelief if everything is angular, it is "retro". I like your comment about present “flat” cartoon styles, misinterpreting the “cartoon modern” style.
They’re flat because there is no design theory vocabulary to draw upon. It is the misbelief if everything is angular, it is “retro”.

]]> by: Clarke (Csnyde) Snyder http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-419 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:39:19 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-419 Good to see a new post Amid, and especially one form one of my art heroes Tom Oreb. You are dead on in your evaluation of how people all too often misinterpret good solid stylized designs as being "flat" and simple, when in fact designs such as the one above are incredibly deceptive in their complexity and not at all easy to duplicate. I look forward to your book and the ongoing discussions and great artwork that will inevitably be posted here on your blog. Good to see a new post Amid, and especially one form one of my art heroes Tom Oreb. You are dead on in your evaluation of how people all too often misinterpret good solid stylized designs as being “flat” and simple, when in fact designs such as the one above are incredibly deceptive in their complexity and not at all easy to duplicate.

I look forward to your book and the ongoing discussions and great artwork that will inevitably be posted here on your blog.

]]> by: Steve Lambe http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-418 Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:37:32 +0000 http://cartoonmodern.blogsome.com/2006/02/21/alice-by-tom-oreb/#comment-418 Gorgeous sketch. Great commentary on flat design too, Amid. Something a lot of artists are guilty of...especially myself. It's a really difficult line to walk and not many modern day artists can pull it off as well as Oreb. Kellman's the only one that comes to mind. Guess it comes with a solid foundation in draftsmanship, and an intution of knowing when the rules can be broken effectively. Wish there were more discussions of theories like these. Gorgeous sketch. Great commentary on flat design too, Amid. Something a lot of artists are guilty of…especially myself. It’s a really difficult line to walk and not many modern day artists can pull it off as well as Oreb. Kellman’s the only one that comes to mind.

Guess it comes with a solid foundation in draftsmanship, and an intution of knowing when the rules can be broken effectively. Wish there were more discussions of theories like these.

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